The Red Pill and Fatherhood: Part 1

I am 28, have a wife who is 24, and a 9-month-old daughter. If things go according to plan, we will have at least four more children before my wife turns 30.

I am writing this in 2013, not 1953.

Why in the world would I follow this life path? I’ve obviously taken the red pill – otherwise I wouldn’t be writing for this site. My knowledge of Game, my natural charisma from before learning Game, my better-than-average looks, my interesting job, and the fact that I dress impeccably well all could contribute to some serious clean up if I were still single and pursuing multiple women.

I’ve been married and divorced already. So I know what an emotional, social, and financial toll the current legal system can take on a man. I didn’t even have any children with my first wife and got put through the ringer.

I’m aware of how messed up the world is. It’s hard not to wax nostalgic for my own childhood, let alone the stories I hear from my parents and their parents about how safe and peaceful life used to be. How school’s weren’t indoctrination camps, how TV didn’t magnify all the bad and minimize all the good of childhood, how boys were boys and girls were girls.

But I still chose to remarry and go the traditional, Western, Christian route.

Here in our corner of the Internet it’s easy for us to see and acknowledge that a traditional, two-parent family is what creates civilization. Having a father and a mother is the best thing for individual children, small communities, and an entire culture in general. We even recognize and preach that women are happier when they are dedicated to their husbands and children instead of a soul-sucking career.

But that’s not where the benefit ends. We get caught in this binary of what’s good for an individual man is not good for society and vice versa. We’re told to sit poolside and pursue as many notches as possible because that’s what ultimately will make us happy.

I won’t argue against the appeal of sexual variety. Even as a man who is happily married, it’s a siren that beckons to me. But it pales in comparison to the happiness I get as a traditional husband and father.

The two-parent structure of the nuclear family is not something that is in everyone’s best interest at the expense of the father. It is in the man’s best interest as well. In fact, it is the culmination of every biological urge you feel to bang a woman – be it some stranger or your devoted wife of years and years.

Fatherhood has taught me that life is not all about me. And that selflessness is not the same as the “selflessness” of the blue pill. Being a dad means I sacrifice for this little girl out of a pure motivation to see her happy. It’s not social or moral posturing. It’s not altruism in that I don’t derive any benefit from it. In fact, it’s a purely selfish selflessness – it makes me happy to sacrifice for my little girl.

When selflessness is something we develop out of love, not out of duty, it becomes a real virtue. And once it’s a real virtue, the man who gives selflessly benefits from his giving just as much as the person who receives from him.

Abundance Mentality is a red-pill principle that has existed since our generation of men started philosophizing. It applies to fatherhood as much as it does to any other aspect of masculinity. When I give to my daughter – whether it’s my time, my attention, my affection, my praise, or anything else I can give – I do so because I have an abundance of positivity in my life that I want to share with her. Same goes with my wife.

When we first start to take the red pill we focus on ourselves. This makes sense because the world has it backwards. They demand and demand and demand from men without ever allowing us to establish ourselves first. When we give out of obligation it’s like paying taxes. When we give before we even have something it’s like going into debt. Our current society is demanding a debt-fueled tax system on its men and it’s no surprise more and more of us are eschewing those traditional roles to focus on ourselves – be it PUA’s or the neckbeard who plays video games in his basement.

But, once a man has started to really develop himself and is experiencing an abundance of the good life can offer, the next step is to have other people with whom to share that abundance. If there’s too much good in my life for me to be able to experience it all myself, I’d rather have a family with whom I can share that abundance than see it go to waste.

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About The Author

Tanner is the author of the manosphere's most popular style blog - Masculine Style and runs his own style consulting agency. His focus is helping slobs dress better and metrosexuals look like actual men.


  1. TGP April 16, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    Good to see this. I am an old married man myself (23 years this weekend), with six kids by my wife (one kid is in heaven), so I like that the younger red pill guys are still taking up this lifestyle. I love being married and being a father, and would not have it any other way. But I also know I got lucky with selecting a good woman, which may be a helluva lot harder to do nowadays. Thanks for writing.

  2. Red Pill Woman April 16, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    What a great entry. You made a good point. Lots of men in the manosphere want women to be more traditional, but refuse to follow those standards for themselves.

  3. Stratton April 16, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    RPW – Spengler’s Law is often referenced, but the fact that it cuts both ways is usually ignored.

  4. YouSoWould April 16, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    I’m not sure I follow the supposed revelatory nature of this.

    Is this corner of the internet truly so maladjusted that the benefits and motivations for seeking fatherhood actually need to be spelled out as if it is some kind of lost profound knowledge?

  5. Andrew April 16, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    This post is a breath of fresh air, and excellent post. The only downside is that I think there is a lot more to say on this topic. I would absolutely love to see a follow up (or several, for that matter) on the benefits of marriage and fatherhood – especially if it/they are this well written again.

  6. hbeeva April 17, 2013 at 3:33 am

    I’m not sure you will be having the best family if you demand a child each year. The idea side of red pill is wonderful, but there are limits to the physical side of making kids. Do you really want your offspring to come from a biologically depleted mother? Being a red pill woman is one, putting your whole organism out on the line is a whole other thing.

    Even traditional societies with many children find a way to space out kids three years- because 2-3 years is a very good period in which the maternal organism repairs and rebuilds resources. And if the mother is devoted and decides to breastfeed, will you make her stop so that she has her ovulation back to make the next one? With regular breastfeeding, the infertile period may last between 6 months and a year and a half.

    So I guess you are sore from the divorce, but abusing a woman’s body with a pregnancy each year will definitely not help. I am only two generations away from a traditional culture with lots of kids, and what they had was not just impeccable dressing and mom and dad, but a whole clan of helpers. Their method had way more wisdom, and sometimes the number of children was socially curbed for quality- too many were a sign that some wisdom was lacking.

    Your method is neurotic. It lacks wisdom. But knock yourself out. Your wife may love the submission, at least until her body rings alarm bells that something is way off. Then, no red pill thinking would save her. And you manosphere bunch are proud to be supporting the facts. In this case, you are putting the idea before the facts of life, and it’s dangerous. Pregnancy and birth can be a bitch, and no amount of submission or red pill would fix that.

    • Virgle Kent April 17, 2013 at 6:07 am

      LOL ha ha ha ha ha hah hahak;las kldsfjoiwejoqiewjioqweufoijfqefj;o !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best hate ever!

  7. hbeeva April 17, 2013 at 6:36 am

    So, tell me how do you plan to breeze your wife through the annual pregnancy, using your impeccable fashion style and red pill thinking?

    • Virgle Kent April 17, 2013 at 7:23 am

      booo now this is just retarded hate… you couldn’t leave on a high note could you?

  8. hbeeva April 17, 2013 at 7:35 am

    Of course not. I’m really curious here. I’m even more curious that a reasonable manosphere person, which would be otherwise quick to pounce with a dissection of informal logical fallacies, would blatantly poison the well of all my arguments and examples.

    Now, this is hate: it’s “put through the wringer”, not “ringer”. I know this and I’m not even a native speaker.

    So given that the manosphere bunch considers women to be guided by their biology, what do you do when your wife’s body screams- no more babies, and this inevitably changes her thinking and her outlook on life. It happens, you know, people’s perceptions are not fixed, they depend on things way below the surface, and a body too tired of pregnancies will hardly see you as fashionable, patriarchal and a leader. In another light, you could well be a tyrant and a bully.

    I wish you a lot of happiness, but still, it’s unnerving. Most of all, because I’m a superstitious Eastern European who believes any plans of children and family should not be shared with such a bravado, lest the evil forces overhear.

    Just don’t let your wife, who I am certain has wonderful healthy genetics and great childbearing hips, does not get her paws on a copy of Women who Run with the Wolves, or something.

    You are also free to consider me a shriveled post-menopausal spinster, although that would be a bit far from the physical reality, but do it if you need to.

  9. Masculine Style April 17, 2013 at 8:20 am

    Well you know what they say about assumptions…

    I was going to break down all of your incorrect assumptions piece by piece – but seeing as your peak argument is that you’re “a superstitious Eastern European who believes any plans of children and family should not be shared with such bravado, lest evil forces overhear,” I don’t think you’ll really consider them.

    Let’s just say it’s the pinnacle of arrogance (not manly confidence) to assume I have any control over whether or not we have that many children in that amount of time. We’re happy to keep the attempts coming, but no one is prophesying or predicting any concrete timetables.

  10. hbeeva April 17, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Why do you assume you’ll get to keep the attempts coming?

    I’m a woman, and I’ve felt the toll that a pregnancy takes on a body. Based on that, I have a pretty good idea of what a time table should look like. In short, it’s “I’ll have a baby whenever I feel it won’t suck the life out of my body and soul”. I won’t even mention career. How do you know your wonderful childbearing wife won’t come down with baby exhaustion? It’s a piece of the “I’m not haaapppy” syndrome.

    And I’m not giving assumptions, I’m giving scenarios. They may be incorrect, but they are also very real, in a way.

    Of course, it may be that I’m a wimp, but no amount of red pill can make me silence the alarm bells that the body gave, saying “don’t even think of another baby, not now, not for a while!” They can be pretty loud, the alarm bells. Try not to silence them too much for your wife, you may shorten her lifespan, or just make her physically miserable.

    Also, besides being a generally superstitious Eastern European, I am also trained in philosophy, so I can differentiate the analytical, positivist clash of arguments and another mode of arguing, offering scenarios and stories. Now, ripping apart a story with an argument is quite satisfying, you can debunk to your heart’s content, but did you really say anything new?

    So I’d like to hear your narrative. How is it working out? How will you steer your life, so that my story is shown to be false? Screaming that it is false, while sneaking in an ad hominem, won’t do. I need a bit more substance. Not just ideologies, realities. Otherwise, your red pill seems much like the Red Flag of the Soviet Union, which is pretty well known to us in Eastern Europe. They also had grand plans. They kept it coming, ignoring a lot of small bits.

    An my, are you a humorless bunch! No power should be given to the humorless, and I’m not sure if they should procreate so much.

    • Virgle Kent April 17, 2013 at 9:39 am

      Yes Hbeeva,

      Because you’re a woman and have had kids you get to speak for every woman on the planet… EVER. All women react the exact same way and it would be impossible for a woman to continuously have kids……

      I mean how do these people do it??

      now STFU and GTFOH with that noise

  11. KC April 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    Maybe she will give 4, maybe 3, maybe none by the time she is 30. In New Zealand I stayed with a family that had 10 kids and were going for 15, what was the current record for the country at the time (maybe still is). 2 kids had died so that was being pregnant 12 times x 9 months… And I don’t think she was older than 35. Point is, it’s possible. And that was the happiest family I have ever seen.

    This post struck a chord with me because I just dropped out of the game after hitting the 99 mark (ladies, not babies), and coincidentally met an amazing woman who exceeded all my relationship expectations. The personal significance of nearly turning that odometer (kinda like, if I hit triple digits, would I just go on forever…?) and coincidentally meeting this amazing woman (and a few other things) convinced me to settle down.

    We are engaged, both have kids from separate relationships, and honestly I am so relieved that I don’t have to deal with the drama of bachelor life. No doubt there will be ups n downs, and I am sure that Mr. Masculine Style has had plenty, but for me that’s a small price to pay. I am fucking over unplanned pregnancy scares, penicillin shots, retarded girl drama, white knights, cockblockers, false rape accusations and juggling crazy bitches. My girl is solid, our relationship is solid and now that I have had my fun collecting notches, I am ready to be where Mr. MS is.

    We are engaged to be married later this year. Great post and as previous commenters mentioned, a welcome breath of fresh air here in the manos-fear.

    • Masculine Style April 18, 2013 at 1:34 pm

      Congrats KC,

      The whole purpose of this corner of the Internet is to give men the tools they need to fulfill their lives and eventually benefit others. If marriage is the next step for you (and it sounds like a great next step), then you should unapologetically take it. I’m excited for you.

  12. hbeeva April 18, 2013 at 6:50 am

    I’ll take the body slam of arguments, and while those left me a bit out of breath, I may just have had the chance at a scratch with a poisoned blade. My breath I will recover, but I believe my poison may work for a while longer.

    Now, what unnerved me most is the language of the original post. Language shows your inner workings- and I can easily see a lot of over-compensation. I don’t see a royal “we”, a husband and a wife deciding to build a family. I see a man a bit bitter, who has taken a woman on a ride, and somehow she bought your plan to over-compensate, because damn it, the world is so wrong, so she should be pregnant all the time.

    Speaking of which, there are people who lift more weights than you and fare great, or so it seems. Does this mean you should try the same thing, even if you start feeling a vague unease? Even if it starts to harm you?

    And I have this question: If at a certain point, before reaching your goal number of kids, your wife states that she feels vague selfishness and not-really-wanting another kid…if this happens, will you take the vague feelings as an indicator that something is off, or will you push through, with ideology, game and your lovely general brand of obtuseness and inability to pay attention to subtleties…

    I already told you, I’m a wimp, I hate having kids. Maybe your wife is a champ in this- but don’t rely on it too much.

    I really wonder, do you just go on without contraceptives, how many jitters and red flags are you ready to disregard before deciding that something may not be a good idea after all.

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